Petition: Place Climate Change at Top of the First Presidential Debate 10/3/2012

[Beau Stockard]

Petition | Ask about Climate Change at the First Presidential Debate ...

www.change.org/petitions/ask-about-climate-change-at-the-first-presi...Cached
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3 days ago – Millions of voters will get their information about the presidential candidates by watching the debates this fall. The first debate, on October 3rd,...



When will candidates address climate change

Sep 29, 2012 | Chad Tolman ... Here we are just weeks from the election and there has not been a serious candidate discussion about energy and climate change - the linked issues that pose the greatest challenge ...

Here we are just weeks from the election and there has not been a serious candidate discussion about energy and climate change – the linked issues that pose the greatest challenge of our time. ... The Republicans – once considered the party of fiscal conservatism and national security – are in a state of denial about the threats climate change poses to our economy and national security. Unfortunately, early in the Bush administration, they took the advice of Republican consultant Frank Luntz to deny the science of climate change as a way to promote the power and influence of the party. ... The Democrats are not a whole lot better, although President Obama did mention that climate change is not a hoax in his acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention. He said he would increase funding for renewable energy, but he has been largely silent during the past two years on the growing threat posed by a continuing reliance on fossil fuels – in spite of unprecedented forest fires in the West, droughts in the Midwest and Texas, and accelerating rates of loss of Arctic sea ice and big glaciers in Greenland and Antarctica, with the resulting sea level rise. Delaware is especially vulnerable to sea level rise, as has been documented by this newspaper and by the recently released Vulnerability Assessment report of the Delaware Sea Level Rise Advisory Committee.

Climate Change is too important an issue for us and the future of our children and the next generations of Americans to not make it the major campaign issue of this 2012 Presidential Election year.

[max1]

Sep 29, 2012 | Chad Tolman ... Here we are just weeks from the election and there has not been a serious candidate discussion about energy and climate change - the linked issues that pose the greatest challenge ...


"it's the economy, jobs, foreign policy and many more IMPORTANT things stupid"

[Bellicose]

Sorry Beau, Max is right on this one, there are way more important things that need to be focused on, instead of climate change. You know something that's going to happen regardless.

[Curly]

Face it, no one gives a shit when they're losing jobs, their homes and everything they worked for because someone at the top wants to spread their wealth. Here it comes.........."but Romney/Repubs/Conservatives"

[Beau Stockard]

Bellicose, max, Chiefbuck,

Sep 29, 2012 | Chad Tolman ... Here we are just weeks from the election and there has not been a serious candidate discussion about energy and climate change - the linked issues that pose the greatest challenge ...


"it's the economy, jobs, foreign policy and many more IMPORTANT things stupid"

'The Economic Crisis Is A Ecological Crisis;

stupid!

You can't separate the economy's 'health' , the weakness of the economic recovery from the deteriorating of healthy natural ecosystems . Climate Change is a policy crisis about how to create a sustainable economy in a finite world. I'd say that we have a financial system that lets debt grow faster than we can grow the means of paying it back. Debt is imaginary and grows as fast as we care to let it. Real wealth--what you need in order to pay back debt-- comes from economic production that requires the use of matter and energy taken from the planet's limited store of natural resources. There are physical limits to our ability to take matter and energy from the planet. When we let debt grow at 10% ,but real wealth can only grow at 2%(or not at all, if we've hit a particular resource limit),then there HAS to be debt repudiation. The people who hold debt as an asset include rich people, but also by anyone who has got a pension, anyone who has got equity in a house but still owes money on it, anyone who has a contractual expectation to be paid salary and benefits, anyone who has a 401k or a retirement account invested in stocks and bonds. It seems that those who hold LOTS of debt as an asset(bankers and rich people) can make sure that those who hold only a little debt as an asset(the middle class) are the ones who suffer when some quantity of debt has to be repudiated--the debts that are owed to them are wiped out(by pension fund wipe-outs, by union-busting, and renegotiating contracts, by foreclosures crises, etc. etc.) One solution is to let there be a little bit of inflation as a debt repudiation mechanism--in essence, the difference between debt and wealth is balanced by the government taking on debt by covering it with the issuance of money. But, as I said, people with political influence prefer that the middle classes suffer rather than see there be inflation. AND those people with money and political influence buy politicians who see things their way, who then go out and stump for the idea that government ,like a family, has to have a balanced budget. (It doesn't. A government can print money ;a family can't) They convince people like you of the simplistic idea that a government deficit is a bad thing. If the elected officials who call for balanced budgets are TRULY worried about deficits and what we owe in the future --as in, we shouldn't leave the next generation with a huge bill to pay--they'd be against nuclear power and in favor of stronger environmental laws in order to ensure that future generations will have an environment is at least as productive, healthy, and capable of supporting us as it is today. When Teapublicans in Congress call for austerity cuts to social programs that detrimentally effect the welfare and happiness of the middle classes, the poor, students, elderly , and older veterans ,but don't accept any means for government revenue enhancement to pay for extended tax cuts to the rich, subsidies for corporations(especially fossil-fuel and defense corporations, or augmenting environmental protection services (to ensure clean air, water, arable land conservation, reforestation, wildlife diversity preservation , etc. then they are not serious about our general welfare and happiness at all.

[max1]

I swear as soon as I get to the part about climate change my eyes glaze over.

[Chiefbuck]

Beau, Hopefully one day you may be able to put things in perspective. While we all agree that keeping the earth clean is a great idea and that recycling is important, for the most part many of the policies that the tree huggers favor are doing more harm than good. Money is being handed out to campaign bundlers and contributors and taxpayer money is being wasted on a large scale with much of the hardware being imported rather than being made here. Solyndra, Fisker , Bloom, etc. are examples. Yet one proven inexpensive technology is being overlooked. Domestic solar water heating systems, another is water and ground source heat pumps. To overlook energy resources here in North America and in some cases impede them is in itself toxic by wasting fuel transporting fuel here while eliminating American employment. In reality much of our so called alternate energy program is merely like Obamacare, a revenue redistribution scheme disguised as something else. These things are not a spin off from the military or space program and private industry would be far more successful than government lawyers in making these things work.

[EpicWin]

I swear as soon as I get to the part about climate change my eyes glaze over.

You could also use that post for the masturbation thread.

[Beau Stockard]

Chiefbuck,

Money is being handed out to campaign bundlers and contributors and taxpayer money is being wasted on a large scale with much of the hardware being imported rather than being made here. Solyndra, Fisker , Bloom, etc. are examples.

Hardly, any credible evidence of failure by government investment in support of the American economy . All your examples ,Solyndra, Fisker, Bloom ,etc. are examples of AMERICAN start-up companies on the cutting edge of new renewable energy technology . All your examples are U S companies that both Bush W. and Obama Administration Energy Departments signaled out for consideration for energy grants and loans. Bloom's success in coming to Delaware thanks to Governor Markell's policy was based on the natural gas boom caused by the invention of lower cost extractive technology by US companies--a side effect was to create interest by Prices Futures Group in Chicago to buy the shuttered Sun Oil Marcus Hook refinery and re-open it as a fracking gas facility. One can debate all day long if natural gas development as the newest bridge fuel , like nuclear in the 60's, is more hyped than practical in getting us even halfway to where we want to go in reducing our carbon footprint and energy self-sufficiency, but it's still an example of investment in America's economy , new jobs creation, and solving our foreign oil dependency.

[Bellicose]

Fisker.

Seriously you went there. A company that is making an expensive as hell electric sports car. You know a car that about 90% of the US population can't even afford.

[Beau Stockard]

Seriously you went there. A company that is making an expensive as hell electric sports car. You know a car that about 90% of the US population can't even afford.

Do you like going to the Delaware Auto Show? Look at the luxury sports carmakers who have come with 'electric sports cars ' way more expensive than Fisker's Karma. Those luxury car makers McLaren, Porsche, Bentley, Lambourgini, Fisker must disagree with you and think there is a large population of Americans who are better off than 4 years ago(Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan 's own millionaire social class,for example) The 2012 Delaware Auto Show is right around the corner!

www.delawareautoshow.com
Location: Chase Center on the Riverfront, Wilm., DE. Cost: $125 for one. $200 for two. Tickets limited. What: The exclusive formal affair of the 2012 Delaware Auto Show.

[Bellicose]

Never been to he Delaware Auto Show, and really don't ever have plans of going. Those car manufacturers you mentioned, I could go even as far to say, that 95% of the US can't afford them.

That technology on the Karma will probably never hit cars that most of the US can afford. Why because its expensive as hell, not to mention the issues that they have had ith the car. You know like it catching on fire, or that it just wouldn't work and a flat bed had to come and pick it up, before hey even really did any driving in it.

So yeah keep giving them grants to make more things that a very large majority of this country can't afford. You go head and support all of that, because all those cars are just fantasies of damn near everyone on this site, including you.

You really do make me laugh, seriously I think that's why I read your posts, because they are just so darn funny. Thanks? Bringing up cars no one can afford, LMAO. Oh wait but Mitt can, sure your not a Mitt fan?

[Josef]

I heard that Mitt Romney actually bought out the blueprints for a water based automobile engine just so Big Oil could continue charging outrageous gas prices. And not to mention pollute the environment. Damn that Romney!

[Beau Stockard]

Bellicose,

That technology on the Karma will probably never hit cars that most of the US can afford. Why because its expensive as hell, not to mention the issues that they have had ith the car.

You always give me a good laugh at your naivity and innocence on how business and technology innovation works--trial and error ,my friend, has been the successful path to good cars since Henry Ford's Model T to Mitt Romney's father George Romney , founder of AMC , pushing the Rambler ( small ,durable sporty car that could get 30MPG --good even by today's standards) Fisker's Karma has held its own in the California market and Europe for years. What's experimental and daring is the attempt by Fisker to break into the hybrid family sedan market dominated by the foreign-owned Japanese car makers,Nissan, Toyota ,and Honda. Fisker has accomplished much so far as the American "David" to these Carmaker Giant Goliaths. Fisker has done no different from previous American start-ups like Henry Ford and George Romney. Why penalize Fisker for basically what we praised and rewarded in past US carmakers?

[max1]

Bellicose, You always give me a good laugh at your naivity and innocence on how business and technology innovation works--trial and error ,my friend, has been the successful path to good cars since Henry Ford's Model T to Mitt Romney's father George Romney , founder of AMC , pushing the Rambler ( small ,durable sporty car that could get 30MPG --good even by today's standards) Fisker's Karma has held its own in the California market and Europe for years. What's experimental and daring is the attempt by Fisker to break into the hybrid family sedan market dominated by the foreign-owned Japanese car makers,Nissan, Toyota ,and Honda. Fisker has accomplished much so far as the American "David" to these Carmaker Giant Goliaths. Fisker has done no different from previous American start-ups like Henry Ford and George Romney. Why penalize Fisker for basically what we praised and rewarded in past US carmakers?

All ANYONE has to do is about two minutes of searching to find out why this is the stupidest post ever made.

[Bellicose]

They are not trying for hybrids, they are making full electric, solar paneled cars that recharge while on the road, two completely different types of cars. Held its own in the California market, you know where people make millions if dollars a year to sing, or make movies. That's Fisker's demographic. How many average Americans have you seen driving one? Not the actual American people who would love to have one of their cars, so they could save some money, with not having to buy gas all the time. I'm telling we are a long ways away from using Fisker's solar panel technology, it's too expensive to put in an everyday car, and only charge tops 30k for it.

You do realize that you are saying that Nissan is helping the Japanese auto companies help dominate in the Hybrid market, don't really think they have more then maybe 2 hybrids. I'll give you Toyota and Honda. Not o mention I'm pretty sure there are some US manufacturers that have more Hybrids in their lineup then Nissan, and maybe even Toyota and Honda.

not naive either, just a realist. Innocent I'll tell you I'm far from that at times.

[EpicWin]

[Curly]

Tell us Skippy, what's it's like to know everything and never be wrong?

[Chiefbuck]

There is an interesting video on the Daily Caller, go to: dailycaller.com for something that may interest you. I can't wait to hear the spin on this. It's been a rough couple of weeks for the Obama administration, this may not help.

[Chiefbuck]

Beau, The contrast of your post to that of one provided by a realist is amazing. Sunlight, rainbows, flowers, just amazing! No wonder you provide some of the loony posts that you do. Liberal progressiveness may actually be a mental illness.