Chicago teacher strike poses test for unions

[Jessica]

There is no other profession in the world that could be asked to do more for the same amount of money and benefits and just accept it. Every single year teachers are asked to do more with less, and every single year they're asked to work in sub-standard physical environments within an antiquated agrarian-based education system with no parent accountability. Every year, politicians and think tanks who have never spent time in a classroom tell teachers how to teach, with no public or educator input - with staggering rates of curriculum failure.

Teachers are expected to work long hours for relatively low pay while saddling staggering student loans. Teacher salaries are public record. Look them up sometime. For a first year teacher with a Bachelor's degree, most teachers will make under $37,000 a year. A first year teacher can easily put in 10 hours a day in school, not to mention time spent for extra-curricular activities, and the HOURS spent at home grading, planning, creating PowerPoints for class, etc. They're expected to be educators, mentors, coaches, support systems, disciplinarians, and first responders.

There is something wrong when you can make more money managing the Dollar Tree than being a teacher. True story.

[max1]

I doubt someones base pay at dollar tree is more then a teacher makes, maybe with bonuses etc. There are many people who would gladly take a first year job earning 37,000 dollars a year with bigger checks to come. I dare any teacher to show me they work 10 hours a day, in my time raising 5 children I have never seen a teacher stay 15 minutes after the school day was over. Just my opinion

[Jessica]

I doubt someones base pay at dollar tree is more then a teacher makes, maybe with bonuses etc. There are many people who would gladly take a first year job earning 37,000 dollars a year with bigger checks to come. I dare any teacher to show me they work 10 hours a day, in my time raising 5 children I have never seen a teacher stay 15 minutes after the school day was over. Just my opinion

1. Yes, management at the Dollar Tree makes more than local teachers in base salary. Bonuses would put them way above that level. In the district I looked up, a teacher with a Bachelor's degree won't make as much as a dollar store manager until their seventh year of teaching. Their average salaries come in at just under $45,000. WaWa, McDonalds, and other retail and fast food positions also pay higher than teacher salaries.

2. EVERY teacher I know works 10 hours a day if not longer. Of course, they're mostly secondary school teachers, so YMMV with the lower schools. In fact, with extended day school programs, some teachers work that long just in base hours - not to mention time for grading, prepping, professional development, attending student events, coaching teams, moderating clubs, etc.

3. Did you stand outside the school and watch what time your kids' teachers left? Because I've never experienced what you did.

[max1]

1. Yes, management at the Dollar Tree makes more than local teachers in base salary. Bonuses would put them way above that level. In the district I looked up, a teacher with a Bachelor's degree won't make as much as a dollar store manager until their seventh year of teaching. Their average salaries come in at just under $45,000. WaWa, McDonalds, and other retail and fast food positions also pay higher than teacher salaries.

2. EVERY teacher I know works 10 hours a day if not longer. Of course, they're mostly secondary school teachers, so YMMV with the lower schools. In fact, with extended day school programs, some teachers work that long just in base hours - not to mention time for grading, prepping, professional development, attending student events, coaching teams, moderating clubs, etc.

3. Did you stand outside the school and watch what time your kids' teachers left? Because I've never experienced what you did.

Look, I dont want to get into a full blown argument with you,
teachers have a hard job- I get it
Teachers get little or no help from a lot of parents- I get that
but if whining about a 37000 year starting salary is the worst of your problems then you got it made

You knew what the job was when you signed on.

I probably agree with you more then disagree but I can tell you from m experience when the children leave at 3:00 your ass better not be in the way of the exit

[Beau Stockard]

max1,

but if whining about a 37000 year starting salary is the worst of your problems then you got it made

Of course ,it is not the worse problem as many young people still continue to enter the education profession despite the low pay and benefits. It wasn't even a very contentious issue with the Chicago Teachers Strikers since the wage and benefits package was the first issue agreed to in the new contract--what is worrying teachers is city and state budget priorities are coming before the needs of the students and teachers for smaller class sizes, the new linkage of teacher performance to student test scores in assessing whether a teacher is not doing a good job, and the teachers main worry about the proposed closing of hundreds of public schools and shift to lower-paying, alternatively financed charter schools--

[max1]

What is the assessment to know if our teachers are doing a good job? Why is this always a sticking point? Is it because its easy for the teacher to put the blame on the parents?

[Beau Stockard]

What is the assessment to know if our teachers are doing a good job? Why is this always a sticking point? Is it because its easy for the teacher to put the blame on the parents?

Good first question max, and what we all need to be talking about too. I don't know any teachers who have blamed parents. All I know is that teachers want to encourage more parent involvement in their children's education and it starts with more parents attending P.T.A meetings at their child's school. Challenge teachers to explain the new testing procedures for your child with thoughtful , pertinent questions. I guarantee that your child's teacher will thank you.

[Jessica]

Low pay is only a small part of any teacher's list of gripes. And, yes, I consider $37,000 to be ridiculously low for a college graduate, especially since the average is around $13,000 more - nationally. It's not a small chunk of change, but for the amount of time and money invested in getting a degree, the pay should match the effort and responsibility.

As to your point, Max, that teachers know what they're getting into when they take the job - that's exactly why teachers are striking. You should know what you're getting into. But with these teachers and many more like them, their responsibilities, benefits, and job retention structure has changed.

As for the assessment portion, many teachers unions are against linking teacher job retention or pay increases to student performance on standardized testing. Most teachers will tell you that they support teacher assessment just like every other career field has performance reviews and indicators. However, you cannot use standardized test scores as a benchmark for student growth or teacher effectiveness. Standardized tests themselves cannot measure this type of growth, instead they are an arbitrary and random sampling of knowledge-based questions and recall skills. Many students are simply not good test takers, especially those with special education needs. There is no incentive for them to do well, so many don't take the test seriously at all.

Using this kind of measurement of teacher effectiveness is ridiculous. I've heard it described as akin to measuring the effectiveness and skills of a dentist on how many cavities their patients get each year - even the ones who only see him every 18 months or decide not to own toothbrushes.

[Bellicose]

Low pay is only a small part of any teacher's list of gripes. And, yes, I consider $37,000 to be ridiculously low for a college graduate, especially since the average is around $13,000 more - nationally. It's not a small chunk of change, but for the amount of time and money invested in getting a degree, the pay should match the effort and responsibility.

As to your point, Max, that teachers know what they're getting into when they take the job - that's exactly why teachers are striking. You should know what you're getting into.

As for the assessment portion, many teachers unions are against linking teacher job retention or pay increases to student performance on standardized testing. Most teachers will tell you that they support teacher assessment just like every other career field has performance reviews and indicators. However, you cannot use standardized test scores as a benchmark for student growth or teacher effectiveness. Standardized tests themselves cannot measure this type of growth, instead they are an arbitrary and random sampling of knowledge-based questions and recall skills. Many students are simply not good test takers, especially those with special education needs. There is no incentive for them to do well, so many don't take the test seriously at all.

Couldnt that be said for other jobs as well, not just teachers? Wonder if those other jobs that are like that, seem to be striking as much as teachers do.

If they don't know about, benefits, salary, and responsibility. Then one they are not asking any questions, and two they should not be teaching if they are not asking any of those questions, or any questions for tht matter.

Totally agree, I know I tested bad, but had some pretty awesome teachers, that gave it everything they had to get me to retain the information. I would hate for them to of lost out on some extra cash, because my brain could not absorb what they were trying their best to teach me!

[Jessica]

Couldnt that be said for other jobs as well, not just teachers? Wonder if those other jobs that are like that, seem to be striking as much as teachers do.

If they don't know about, benefits, salary, and responsibility. Then one they are not asking any questions, and two they should not be teaching if they are not asking any of those questions, or any questions for tht matter.

Totally agree, I know I tested bad, but had some pretty awesome teachers, that gave it everything they had to get me to retain the information. I would hate for them to of lost out on some extra cash, because my brain could not absorb what they were trying their best to teach me!

It's not that they don't know about benefits, responsibility, salary, etc. It's that politicians who have never taught for a moment in their lives want to change the systems through which educators teach, assess, etc. Things change each and every year, and in this case, the teachers in Chicago accepted many, many unexpected changes but refused to budge on other points.

Aside from government safety and banking/mortgage regulations, I don't see that kind of outsider interference in many other careers. I don't know about other industries not striking - it seems I've heard of a lot more local strikes in the trade industries than I've seen of teachers striking, but I don't know the numbers.

[Beau Stockard]

Jessica,

it seems I've heard of a lot more local strikes in the trade industries than I've seen of teachers striking, but I don't know the numbers.

First off, I tip my chapeau to you for very tight, clear, posts that state your position. Second, I just heard on the news tonight that the Chicago Teachers Strike is over! Yippee! Kids and teachers should be back to school by tomorrow or Thursday at the latest. Also, I do know of two ongoing strikes and actual lock-outs by management that is still going on and I believe that many others on here do too: The NHL players strike and the NFL professional referees are still out on the picket line.

[max1]

So who is responsible for the poor world rankings of our education system?

[Josef]

Also, I do know of two ongoing strikes and actual lock-outs by management that is still going on and I believe that many others on here do too: The NHL players strike and the NFL professional referees are still out on the picket line.

Aren't those lockouts?

[longnecker]

So who is responsible for the poor world rankings of our education system?

Obama.. Of course!

[Bellicose]

For the record the NHL is not Management it's the Owners who are causing that. I do not consider the Owners part of Management.

[max1]

Obama.. Of course!

Oh I would love to pin the blame on him, but the facts are we have been going downhill for a long time. I will answer my own question since I am constantly right and perhaps it will open some eyes.

The sad state of our education system as far as I am concerned (WARNING!! The following is an opinion)

1. Teachers unions who are run by theives
2. The parents who dont give two shits
3. The teachers who dont give two shits
4. The government who needs to stay out of states rights to goveren
5. The government for not setting a standard and then sticking to it
6. Teachers who try to use their job to teach social values that are not consistent with the standards

No damn wonder Johnny cant read or write.

[Beau Stockard]

For the record the NHL is not Management it's the Owners who are causing that. I do not consider the Owners part of Management.

I can't think of a single professional sports team owner in the NHL or NFL who does not look after and make decisions on something concerning his own team.

[Beau Stockard]

Obama.. Of course!

Playing the blame game, longnecker? I thought that Chiefbuck already scolded all of us on using the 'blame game' ?

[Bellicose]

Do you know them all? The owners for the most part in pro sports, put together the best management team they can, so they don't have to do it for themselves. Hence why you see managers/coaches come and go every season.

[Beau Stockard]

Do you know them all? The owners for the most part in pro sports, put together the best management team they can, so they don't have to do it for themselves. Hence why you see managers/coaches come and go every season.

So, who makes the final decision on firing managers/coaches?