This Congress could be least productive since 1947

[Beau Stockard]

Sorry,here, needed correction . my bad!

[Beau Stockard]

Max says,

your a good cheer leader for the failure down in washington but we still are at OVER 8% unemployed, and thats what people see

I like that you do enjoy bringing the discussion back on focus to the real problem that is a do-nothing Congress. They've failed to pass a sensible budget that lowers the national deficit while minimizing the harm and suffering to working Americans and their families despite the tough ,but fair to all Bowles-Simpson SuperCommittee recommendations readily at hand to be easily implemented. I doubt that I'm an apologist for the dysfunctional Tea Party led- US Congress that we have now unless I missed something in my own critical posts on the business -as-usual politics in Washington.

[max1]

lol, you do make for interesting posting, and for that I thank you.

[Chiefbuck]

While Beau's posts are very well written, I wonder about the credibility of the sources that he cites. As one who is a user of Tricare and medicare which is as few know mandated by Tricare users, there are several misconceptions in respect to medical and dental coverage for veterans. First of all, dental care for veterans requires that all except for service connected injuries is paid for by the veteran. Second there are two main Tricare plans. Both require contributions by the veteran.
The idea that retired veterans all get free medical and dental care is a myth. As far as I am aware, the only cost free medical care provided to veterans is for those with a 50% disability rating at the VA. Some military bases did provide medical care and prescriptions to retirees, I understand that Dover AFB does in some cases. As a disabled vet I use the VA and Dover, the care provided by both, despite recent cutbacks is excellent. Several clinics at the VA have been eliminated and the waiting times have increased but the staff manages to overcome all obstacles to care for the veterans.

[Beau Stockard]

Chiefbuck says,

I wonder about the credibility of the sources that he cites

I wonder about the liberal progressive leanings of Chiefbuck? Lawrence Korb was assistant Secretary of Defense in the Reagan Administration. DOD military analyst reports. Defense Secretary Robert Gates (lengthy experience working at the CIA, State ,and Defense under Carter,Reagan, Bush Sr. , Clinton, G W Bush and Obama) was the Pentagon source for the healthcare costs are "eating the Defense Department alive" quotation. Korb sounded alot like Robert Gates who noted earlier this year that President Dwight D. Eisenhower believed this country,

“could only be as militarily strong as it was economically dynamic and fiscally sound.”

I wonder who Chiefbuck thinks that I should have used for my 'sources', maybe Robert Reich and Noam Chomsky?

[Beau Stockard]

Korb also goes on to agree with Defense Secretary Robert Gates that ' cuts in defense spending , reducing troop levels, eliminating whole carrier fleets no longer necessary since it is unlikely that the US will engage in any future large-scale ground wars half-way across the globe, axing obsolete or boondoggle modern weapons systems like much in the star wars programs to develop interstellar missile defense, cutting entitlements and raising taxes --all needs to be 'on the table'.

[max1]

While Beau's posts are very well written, I wonder about the credibility of the sources that he cites.

I'm with you, while Beau's posts surely are well written the sources are a concern considering some of the glaring ms-information he puts out there at times. I think it's great we have a liberal poster who at least will stand by what he says and not call you a hater or racist and then put you on ignore. Just my opinion.

[Curly]

Are you a vet Beau?

[Chiefbuck]

Beau, Even as a liberal progressive you certainly must be aware that I am a conservative republican. You of course are free to cite and distort any sources, after all, you are a liberal. BTW, I find your posts amusing and typical with enough half-truth used to provide limited credibility. Now go ahead and ask me to cite specifics, and I will respond as I always do with a polite ignore. I do not waste my time trying to convince liberals of anything. Liberals are liberal for many reasons, none of which I choose to mention because those reasons are very well known.

[Beau Stockard]

Max makes a good point about open and polite civil discourse,

I think it's great we have a liberal poster who at least will stand by what he says and not call you a hater or racist and then put you on ignore

Here's Chiefbuck's contrarian opinion on civil debate as max and I see it,

Now go ahead and ask me to cite specifics, and I will respond as I always do with a polite ignore. I do not waste my time trying to convince liberals of anything

I have to ask you Chiefbuck what your true intentions are in posting here on TD if not to enjoy open, spirited civil debate? I haven't labeled you with names ,but you certainly have chosen to start the namecalling and then threats of ignore,

You of course are free to cite and distort any sources, after all, you are a liberal. BTW

You've shown no evidence that I 'distort any sources' or deserve the 'liberal label' -- besides; your dismissiveness at not stating clearly your agumentation makes me wonder what you are hiding or ashamed to defend in an open forum?

[Beau Stockard]

To answer your last question Curly, I registered for the military draft three months before the fall of Saigon and the end of the Vietnam War. At age 16 ,I joined the Merchant Marine, but I believe that it wasn't until the Reagan Administration that the government had recognized merchant mariners as veterans ,even though we sailed into war zones , placing our lives in mortal danger, for delivering war relief and maintaining vital supplies lines to our troops fighting overseas in every major American conflict going back to the Revolutionary War.

[Beau Stockard]

Max said,

the sources are a concern

I used impeccably Conservative 'sources' to support my argument that Defense cuts must be included in any fiscally responsible deficit-busting government budget. Tell me it just ain't so , max chiefbuck (maybe even Curly ) that you've all turned into deficit-spending Liberals? Buying Defense for the sake of buying without any realistic linkage to the proper, limited means of defending US vital interests is the surest way to bankrupting the country. (Didn't we already learn that lesson from the Kennedy/Johnson mistakes at escalating the Vietnam War without any US vital interests at stake?)

[Curly]

Hey, I just like it when we kill bad guys.

To answer your last question Curly, I registered for the military draft three months before the fall of Saigon and the end of the Vietnam War. At age 16 ,I joined the Merchant Marine, but I believe that it wasn't until the Reagan Administration that the government had recognized merchant mariners as veterans ,even though we sailed into war zones , placing our lives in mortal danger, for delivering war relief and maintaining vital supplies lines to our troops fighting overseas in every major American conflict going back to the Revolutionary War.

That's cool, I can respect that. So basically, you have no idea what our military, especially special ops, go through or deal with.

[Chiefbuck]

Beau, To clarify, no wasting of the Chief's time playing gotcha. Now go ahead and deny that you are a liberal progressive. There you go again with the typical liberal retort of "what are you hiding or ashamed of", which is a nifty underhanded slur. I expected more out of a wordsmith. At least provide a "Bless your heart". BTW, I gave out "awards" for various posts from time to time before the News Journal mandated facebook use. Those awards included a Barney Frank blow up doll and now I am considering a new one, The Micro Mensa. I'll try to find some time to play again in a week or so.

[max1]

Max said, I used impeccably Conservative 'sources' to support my argument that Defense cuts must be included in any fiscally responsible deficit-busting government budget. Tell me it just ain't so , max chiefbuck (maybe even Curly ) that you've all turned into deficit-spending Liberals? Buying Defense for the sake of buying without any realistic linkage to the proper, limited means of defending US vital interests is the surest way to bankrupting the country. (Didn't we already learn that lesson from the Kennedy/Johnson mistakes at escalating the Vietnam War without any US vital interests at stake?)

You never answered the question. Show me your source for this quote

"
Originally Posted by Beau Stockard
Can you just imagine the riot when conservatives have to start explaining to seniors that they'll be giving up their Medicare and instead buying healthcare coupons from the big private healthcare providers and drug makers? "

[Beau Stockard]

@max,

Can you just imagine the riot when conservatives have to start explaining to seniors that they'll be giving up their Medicare and instead buying healthcare coupons from the big private healthcare providers and drug makers?

It was a question ,Max and not a "quote" .Looking back at the train of conversation, I believe that I have shown where my fear came from that Ryan's radical rearrangement of Medicare has less to do with his claim to be making it "fiscally stable" and more with the extremist , 'states rights' fanatics who want smaller government at all cost which means showing Medicare is unsustainable in the long run and should be eliminated.

[Beau Stockard]

@Chiefbuck,

At least provide a "Bless your heart

Humble much? Not! There you go again, buddy with the whacky claims, innuendo , and no evidence , mind you , to back you up. If you need more time to formulate an articulate response then just say so. But, really, namecalling ;wicked spinmeister? I doubt that's going to be a smooth road to any positive results or worthwhile discussion.

[max1]

@max, It was a question ,Max and not a "quote" .Looking back at the train of conversation, I believe that I have shown where my fear came from that Ryan's radical rearrangement of Medicare has less to do with his claim to be making it "fiscally stable" and more with the extremist , 'states rights' fanatics who want smaller government at all cost which means showing Medicare is unsustainable in the long run and should be eliminated.

ok, so I ask one more time,

Can you show me where Paul Ryans plan calls for Medicare recipients to have to use healthcare coupons?

[Beau Stockard]

Max, Paul Ryan's idea to gradually replace traditional Medicare coverage for seniors with a voucher system otherwise known as 'premium support' has been bandied about in Congress for a number of years--at least as far back as when the Clinton Adminstration was in office. The voucher system had it Dem and Repub supporters. Believe you me President Obama considered many different ideas , public option, single payer(that would involve a complete Government takeover of the mixed US private/public Healthcare system and Obama rejected it) , a voucher system, etc. ; but finally he decided that significant reforms of the existing healthcare system would be the best way to go forward.

Under the Affordable Care Act of 2010—“Obamacare”—the formula that governs payments to health-care providers was altered to reduce outlays significantly—about five hundred billion dollars over ten years. Assuming that these measures go into effect, their impact will be very noticeable. Citing numbers from the Congressional Budget Office, Feder wrote that “Medicare premiums, currently estimated to be 11 percent lower than private insurance premiums for the same benefit package, will be about 30 percent lower by the end of the next decade.” (This change in the growth in outlays accounts for much of what Romney has been referring to as money taken away from seniors.)

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...#ixzz24iCFQErh

How Bipartisan Is Paul Ryan's Approach to Medicare Reform? : The ...

www.newyorker.com/.../privatizing-medicare-a-supporter-recants.ht...
You +1'd this publicly. Undo
Aug 17, 2012 – Ryan's Medicare Reform: An Early Supporter Recants ... favor moving to a voucher system, although they usually avoid that phrase and use ... who informally advised the Clinton Administration about health-care reform, who in ...

One of the things we’ll hear quite a bit from Republicans in the coming months is that the Ryan/Romney approach to reforming Medicare, which involves issuing vouchers to future retirees so they can choose from various health-insurance options, has bipartisan support. Up to a point, that is true. ... there are some progressives who have supported the basic ideas underlying Ryan’s plan, even if they would criticize many of its details. (Ryan initially proposed issuing vouchers that wouldn’t keep up with the costs of rising health care, and he has failed to endorse the stringent oversight that would be necessary to prevent private insurance companies gaming the system.)

[Chiefbuck]

Beau, Have you overlooked the fact that the US congress includes both the House and Senate? The democrat controlled Senate has not passed a budget in three years. The now GOP controlled House (since Jan 2011) has submitted numerous bills that have not been acted on. During the first two years of the Obama administration the executive and legislative branches of our government were controlled by democrats. In respect to the present House, not passing more radical tax and spend bills is responsible leadership.