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Thread: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

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    Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    More job-seekers are facing an added requirement: no smoking — at work or anytime.

    • An increasing number of employers won't hire applicants whose urine tests positive for nicotine use, whether from cigarettes, smokeless tobacco or even patches.
    As bans on smoking sweep the USA, an increasing number of employers — primarily hospitals — are also imposing bans on smokers. They won't hire applicants whose urine tests positive for nicotine use, whether cigarettes, smokeless tobacco or even patches.


    Such tobacco-free hiring policies, designed to promote health and reduce insurance premiums, took effect this month at the Baylor Health Care System in Texas and will apply at the Hollywood Casino in Toledo, Ohio, when it opens this year.
    "We have to walk the walk if we talk the talk," says Dave Fotsch of Idaho's Central District Health Department, which voted last month to stop hiring smokers.
    Each year, smoking or exposure to secondhand smoke causes 443,000 premature deaths and costs the nation $193 billion in health bills and lost productivity, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC says 19.3% of U.S. adults smoked last year, down from 42.4% in 1965.
    "We're trying to promote a complete culture of wellness," says Marcy Marshall of the Geisinger Health System in Danville, Pa., which begins its nicotine-free hiring next month. "We're not denying smokers their right to tobacco products. We're just choosing not to hire them."
    The policies stir outrage, even in the public health community.
    "These policies represent employment discrimination. It's a very dangerous precedent," says Michael Siegel, a professor at Boston University's School of Public Health. He says the restrictions punish smokers rather than helping them quit.
    "What's next? Are you not going to hire overly-caffeinated people?" asks Nate Shelman, a smoker and Boise's KBOI radio talk show host whose listeners debated the topic last month. "I'm tired of people seeing smokers as an easy piņata."
    After several companies, including Alaska Airlines, adopted smoker-hiring bans a couple of decades ago, the tobacco industry and the American Civil Liberties Union lobbied for smoker rights. As a result, 29 states and the District of Columbia passed smoker-protection laws.
    Some laws exempt non-profit groups and the health care industry, and 21 states have no rules against nicotine-free hiring.
    Federal laws allow nicotine-free hiring because they don't recognize smokers as a protected class, says Chris Kuzynski with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.
    There's no data on how many U.S. businesses won't hire smokers, but the trend appears strongest with hospitals, says Lewis Maltby, president of the National Workrights Institute, a non-profit offshoot of the ACLU that opposes the hiring bans.
    Many of the new policies expand on smoke-free workplace rules. At Bon Secours Virginia Health System, more than 300 employees have kicked the habit since its campuses went smoke-free in 2009, and one applicant did so since it began nicotine-free hiring Nov. 30, says administrative director Kim Coleman.
    The bottom line will benefit because health care costs for tobacco users are $3,000 to $4,000 more each year than for non-smokers, says Bon Secours' Cindy Stutts. "There's also an impact on productivity," she says, because smokers take more breaks.
    Paul Billings of the American Lung Association says he's seen no data that prove nicotine-free hiring gets people to quit. He says cessation programs are a better bet. Still, his group won't hire smokers: "We're non-smoking exemplars."
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...ing/52394782/1

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by longnecker View Post
    Each year, smoking or exposure to secondhand smoke causes 443,000 premature deaths and costs the nation $193 billion in health bills and lost productivity, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
    but it is still, somehow, legal.

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    Even though I'm quitting I still find the idea overly intrusive and incredibly creepy. I just wonder where it stops.
    Gott weiẞ ich will kein Engel sein.

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    An increasing number of employers won't hire applicants whose urine tests positive for nicotine use, whether from cigarettes, smokeless tobacco or even patches.
    That is their right as employers.

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    Even though I'm quitting I still find the idea overly intrusive and incredibly creepy. I just wonder where it stops.
    I can see banning a person who is in close contact with others from smelling like cigarettes. They do stink to a nonsmoker. How about people that work alone? Truckdrivers? Smoke at home watching TV in evening. This is truely Big Brother.

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by longnecker View Post
    This is truely Big Brother.
    That's my point exactly. Will they start discriminating against people who drink alcohol or the overweight? Like I said, where does it stop?
    Gott weiẞ ich will kein Engel sein.

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    That's my point exactly. Will they start discriminating against people who drink alcohol or the overweight? Like I said, where does it stop?
    There is a little difference. There's no such thing as second hand exposure to drunk and overweight people.

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by Curly View Post
    There is a little difference. There's no such thing as second hand exposure to drunk and overweight people.
    No, but like the article said it's all about saving money on insurance and the bottom line. It's not that the company actually cares about each employee or potential employee, they care about the extra cost in insurance. And yes, over weight people and people with other addictions DO cost more too. I really think this is a very slippery slope we've begun to descend. All in the name of the almighty profit, smokers are just easy targets to begin with. Then where does the discrimination end? And yes, IMO it's discrimination.
    You can only make a mistake once. After that it's a choice.

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    My smoking coworkers take breaks about once an hour plus lunch....

    I take a break... at lunch.

    If I was a manager I would want a non-smoker just because of the breaks, not the health reasons.

    I've never seen an overweight person take a break for their hourly candy bar or come back smelling like chocolate.
    Røbb

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by motherof3 View Post
    No, but like the article said it's all about saving money on insurance and the bottom line. It's not that the company actually cares about each employee or potential employee, they care about the extra cost in insurance. And yes, over weight people and people with other addictions DO cost more too. I really think this is a very slippery slope we've begun to descend. All in the name of the almighty profit, smokers are just easy targets to begin with. Then where does the discrimination end? And yes, IMO it's discrimination.
    You're right, it's all about money. I have another idea. Smokers, overweight and drinkers should pay more for health insurance, period. Unless the overweight problem is no fault of their own, thyroid problem for instance. If people choose to throw in the towel and make smoking, food and booze more important than their health, screw them, they should pay more. IMO, it's not discrimination if it's something you can't change. You can't change race, nationality, mental (maybe smoking is a mental handicap?)and physical handicap, age.............In other words it's bad habits, not discrimination. I do see your point to a certain extent.

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves


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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by Robb View Post
    My smoking coworkers take breaks about once an hour plus lunch....

    I take a break... at lunch.
    That is what pisses me off. I know this persona t my job, who works the receiving dock once in a while. When they are back on the dock, they go out and have a smoke like once or twice an hour. I said something to my supervisor and he said well it's an addiction, they just have to have that smoke. So they are screwing the company and the bosses are ok with it. Yet, if I was to stop and go outside once an hour, for a few minutes, they would have an issue with it. I am the one who is being screwed for not smoking. We get an hour lunch break and that is it. Yet they get an hour lunch plus about 10 minutes and hour as well. Just trying to figure out what my addiction could be, so I can get away with it.

    Let alone the smell from them when they come back in, ugh makes me want to puke so much!
    It's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years......

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    The system SAVES money when people die prematurely. The costs of Medicare and Social Security that are saved over 20 plus years easily outweigh treating a terminal lung cancer patient or otherwise.

    Everybody has to die. That costs money. End of life care is off the charts moneywise for everybody who doesn't die before they get to the hospital or has a living will.

    Just ban it if that's what you want. I'm cool with that.

    Take a look at some of the raw numbers on how much cigarette taxes bring in first, though. And then think about how much you're willing to pitch in to cover that loss.

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    double post

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellicose View Post
    That is what pisses me off. I know this persona t my job, who works the receiving dock once in a while. When they are back on the dock, they go out and have a smoke like once or twice an hour. I said something to my supervisor and he said well it's an addiction, they just have to have that smoke. So they are screwing the company and the bosses are ok with it. Yet, if I was to stop and go outside once an hour, for a few minutes, they would have an issue with it. I am the one who is being screwed for not smoking. We get an hour lunch break and that is it. Yet they get an hour lunch plus about 10 minutes and hour as well. Just trying to figure out what my addiction could be, so I can get away with it.

    Let alone the smell from them when they come back in, ugh makes me want to puke so much!
    I had this issue at my job some time ago when it was still okay to smoke indoors. I used to be left alone to hold down the fort while everyone stepped out to grab a quick smoke. I used to get so mad. Besides abandoning me for 10 minutes every hour and the disgusting smell, what would really get me id that they all talked shop during their breaks. This always left me out of the loop.

    One day I bummed a cigarette from one of them, stepped out to a bench where everyone could see me. I sat down and relaxed for 10 minutes holding that cigarette. I never lit it.... I saved it and pull it out and take my own hourly breaks. Finally, they all got the message and stopped taking their breaks at the same time.

    Question for you smokers..... if cigarettes and nicotine were outlawed, would you be able to quit or would you be looking underground for a source?

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by hockey View Post
    I had this issue at my job some time ago when it was still okay to smoke indoors. I used to be left alone to hold down the fort while everyone stepped out to grab a quick smoke. I used to get so mad. Besides abandoning me for 10 minutes every hour and the disgusting smell, what would really get me id that they all talked shop during their breaks. This always left me out of the loop.

    One day I bummed a cigarette from one of them, stepped out to a bench where everyone could see me. I sat down and relaxed for 10 minutes holding that cigarette. I never lit it.... I saved it and pull it out and take my own hourly breaks. Finally, they all got the message and stopped taking their breaks at the same time.

    Question for you smokers..... if cigarettes and nicotine were outlawed, would you be able to quit or would you be looking underground for a source?
    I wont even touch the things. Heck if someone asks me to pick some up for them at the store, I will. But, I will ask for them to be put into a separate bag and hand the bag to the person who wants them. Don't touch one other type of product as well but, that is my own issue and for another thread.
    It's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years......

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    I have a nasty habit. I like to rub my balls and then smell my fingers. It's an addiction and I know it's a bad, disgusting habit. Would you hire me? If you won't, is it discrimination?
    Perhaps if I had a large number of people that did the same thing it would be discrimination.

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by Curly View Post
    I have a nasty habit. I like to rub my balls and then smell my fingers. It's an addiction and I know it's a bad, disgusting habit. Would you hire me? If you won't, is it discrimination?
    Perhaps if I had a large number of people that did the same thing it would be discrimination.
    Not discrimination but definitely

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    My "ball" post along with that new avatar is freaking me out.

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    Re: Workplaces ban not only smoking, but smokers themselves

    clippage
    Quote Originally Posted by hockey View Post

    Question for you smokers..... if cigarettes and nicotine were outlawed, would you be able to quit or would you be looking underground for a source?
    Ive been rolling my own for 6 years or so, my brother and I have talked about growing our own. There is an old law on the books dating from colonial times that every citizen can grow 1/10 th of an acre for personal use.

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