Vo-tech bill ready for committee action

[longnecker]

A bill that would remove strict academic criteria for students applying to vo-tech schools and offer a transparent admission system is ready for legislative action this upcoming session, and the bill's author is looking for all the support he can get.
"I obviously don't have the sponsors on the bill to indicate it would sail through passage, so I have work to do to build consensus among my colleagues to support its passage. I'm looking for issues to address to try to make it a reality," said Rep. Darryl Scott, D-Dover.
Scott introduced the bill June 22 with the support of Senate Education Chairman Sen. Dave Sokola, D-Newark, representatives Michael Barbieri and Teresa Schooley, both Newark Democrats, and Rep. S. Quinton Johnson, D-Middletown.
The bill states, "The sole criteria for admission to vocational-technical schools shall be residency in the district and eligibility to attend public school. In the event that the number of students wishing to attend a vocational-technical school exceeds the school's capacity, admission shall be determined by lottery."
Coming at the tail end of the last legislative session, the bill was assigned to the House Education Committee and awaits action there until at least Jan. 10, when the next legislative session begins.
"There was a mixed reception," Scott said. "There are some who understand the issue and seem to be supportive and there are those who say 'Hey, good luck,' but in a sense that I'm not going to have much luck pushing it forward. It really was a mixed bag."
Downstate support needed
Scott said he wrote the bill to address an admission system in the downstate vo-tech schools based on grade point minimums. At Sussex Tech, students must have a 70 average, while students accepted at Polytech must be passing core subjects as determined by the sending district.
A big chunk of the support he needs lies in Sussex County. It was here that five Sussex County school districts signed a resolution supporting the return of Sussex Tech to its traditional vocational-technical roots. Cape Henlopen, Seaford, Milford, Indian River and Delmar school districts contend Sussex Tech has abandoned its vo-tech focus for college prep. Instead of reaching out to students who plan to go directly into the workforce upon graduation, the five traditional school districts said Sussex Tech is courting college-bound students - students, they say, who should attend their traditional home school districts.
"Sussex Technical School District now advertises itself to be a premier college preparatory school …[it] has established admissions criteria that are contrary to the nature of a school designed to provide vocational and technical education, including minimum grades, minimum state test scores and absence of disciplinary or attendance problems," the resolution states.
The numbers of special education students and English language learners are much lower in the vo-tech school districts, and strict discipline and attendance policies ensure that any violators are removed, Scott said.
"So the question is, 'Are the programs in the building as accessible as they should be to our entire student population?'" Scott said.
Sussex delegation speaks
"There are questions, especially in Sussex County, on how some of these kids are accepted to the school and how the school, in some people's minds, reaches out and grabs kids as well as teachers," said Rep. Pete Schwarzkopf, D-Rehoboth Beach. "We've talked about it. It's something that the other school districts are upset about."
Sen. George Bunting, D-Bethany Beach, acknowledged that the vo-tech debate has merit.
"There's a lot of pressure right now to do something," he said. "They need to look at the inequity of the 70 GPA."
When legislators agreed to spend more money per student at the vo-tech schools, he said, they did so under the belief that the schools would be accepting a higher percentage of special needs students. Strict grade point average requirements, however, have weeded out many of the special needs population. Read more
http://capegazette.villagesoup.com/n...-action/196034

[motherof3]

I hope this doesn't pass. It is hard enough for good kids that work hard to get any kind of a decent education in our public schools. This at least means the kids that apply to vo-tech really want to be there and have worked hard to earn a place. And if my kids were limited to just the vo-techs in our district they'd really be screwed even more. To me it seems as if once again the kids that work hard are being penalized by those that want to cry "it's not fair" That pisses me off. My youngest has applied to two different schools. She has worked damn hard to keep her grades at almost straight A's in order to have a chance at a great high school. Take away that drive and your schools are going to go to crap IMO. In this day and age we are doing our kids a disservice if we aren't doing every thing we can to help them succeed. To teach them that they can be lackadaisical about their grades and still succeed is just crazy. Because let me tell you no employer out there is going to be satisfied with just the minimum required to get by.

[Chase]

agreed MO3, i loved vo-tech HS...and part of this was the good people i went to school with.

[Boombastic]

Boy oh boy!!! Thinking what to write, and I find myself on a soapbox.

To "dummy-down" admission standards, shows a failure of early education standards. If more resources are made available for K through 8 a better learning foundation would be in place for the children to help them be prepared for 9 through 12. The public school student population is small enough to eliminate all the districts and have one statewide district with identical criteria, lesson plans and standards, giving equal cost per student.

As far as "Vo-Tech", I think the experience should be used as a gateway to an apprenticeship program, and not confused with cheap labor or a qualified craftsperson.

Just my opinion

[Chase]

i think vo-tech gets you a quasi apprenticeship as in usually you get paid. no company thinks you are a qualified crafts person when you graduate, they are smarter then that....lol. also i wouldn't be expected to be treated as a grunt either. vo-tech has a great job program with job counselors, at least at hodgson, they were great (shout out to mr. moxley)

starting in 11th grade if you wanted a job they were searching for you and placing you in good companies that understood the situation. the pay was crappy but the experience was totally worth it. i "co-op'd" my junior and senior years and went on to work for the same company when i graduated. that started me in the business i am in and im now a high level designer at a worldwide engineering firm.

now that i am on the other side of it, i see how co-op'rs are seen in the real world. we get co-op kids all the time from local vo-tech schools. they are usually really good and eager to learn. i am often put in charge of overseeing them as my work knows i have that background. we start them out with what they know, autocad, basic drafting, etc. we do a lot of training all the time for different upper level systems that we use like PDMS, we offer those classes to the co-op'rs so they get to learn some of that too. they will be doing basic stuff for at least a year usually before they start doing higher level stuff but its all good experience.

maybe i was lucky or something, i do know plenty of people i graduated with that went on to do totally different things, some of them not as good, i also know many that went on and really went big opening their own businesses in our line of work.

i guess a lot of it is how focused you are on doing something with your life, but that doesn't change with what school you go to.

i've touched on all this stuff before here on TalkDE. I have a different view on college then working vs. HS then working.

[Joe Walther]

i think vo-tech gets you a quasi apprenticeship as in usually you get paid. no company thinks you are a qualified crafts person when you graduate, they are smarter then that....lol. also i wouldn't be expected to be treated as a grunt either. vo-tech has a great job program with job counselors, at least at hodgson, they were great (shout out to mr. moxley)...

I deleted some of this to save space.

Chase, your take on vocational-technical high school education is right on the money. But, my objection to this bill is based on even more fundamental logic. And, I believe it goes to the heart of the problems with secondary public school education from the student side of the equation—and, for that matter, a number of the private schools (again, at the secondary level) are just as guilty.

I won’t even broach the teacher/administration side here. The problems with this side of the equation are monumental and are fodder for other posts.

The sponsors of this bill are proffering a subtle implication that reeks of academic elitism—though I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that it’s unintentional. Regardless, it’s the same implication that existed when I was in high school, which was long enough ago that folks were still using charcoal to write with and shovels to write on—learned it from good ole Abe Lincoln, we did.

These people are assuming that only two types of students are working their way through Delaware’s high schools: those demonstrably smart enough to go to college and those who are too STUPID for such unrealistically high and mighty dreams and goals.

My fundamental question to such dorks has always been “Where is it formally decreed that vocational-technical oriented kids are not also smart enough to go to college as well?” My experience with such students has been that many of them do go on to college either immediately after graduation from their respective programs or after finding employment in their fields.

As well, many others don’t have the slightest desire to go to college, but they’re incredible technicians who stay in their fields and go on to build successful careers and/or start their own businesses. These people, in terms of intellectual curiosity, are well on a par with the nation’s average 24 to 25-year-old MBA graduates.

We need HIGHER public high school entry standards, not LOWER ones. I recognize that public schools have a greater problem with academic duds than the private ones do because the former can’t refuse to accept students—at least not until they reach the age of 16-years.

This nation is affluent enough to develop alternatives for kids who possess legitimate learning difficulties. It will take a little longer for these kids to find their passions, but, with the proper help, find them they will. But, the difficulties have to be legitimate and not simply made-up bafflegab.

We can also provide alternatives for the truly unmotivated brain-dead, as well. This country is teeming with filthy stadium toilets that need constant cleaning, ditches that need digging, restaurant tables that need busing, and a host of other undesirable tasks that require nothing more than the ability to show up on time.

In the meantime, however, we need a steady stream of our country’s most motivated kids entering our public high schools, vocational-technical or otherwise. Lowering the hoop so everyone can slam-dunk accomplishes nothing other than diminishing the pride in being able to slam-dunk.

[longnecker]

I deleted some of this to save space.

We can also provide alternatives for the truly unmotivated brain-dead, as well. This country is teeming with filthy stadium toilets that need constant cleaning, ditches that need digging, restaurant tables that need busing, and a host of other undesirable tasks that require nothing more than the ability to show up on time.

They must have some motivation if they are actually willing to get up and go to work. Let alone being there on time. They are several steps above the ones who would rather have babies and live on the State.

[Joe Walther]

They must have some motivation if they are actually willing to get up and go to work. Let alone being there on time. They are several steps above the ones who would rather have babies and live on the State.

I referred to this group as "unmotivated brain-dead" for a reason, I didn't say they had any motivation, only that the only intellectual requirement for the job was showing up on time. Even the ones you've described have automobiles and cell phones with clocks--usually better ones than those who work hard for a living.