Utah Approves Guest Worker Program for Illegal Immigrants

[longnecker]

Utah could become the first state in the nation with its own guest worker program that would grant permits to undocumented immigrants and allow them to continue living and working in the state legally.
The measure passed the Republican-controlled state legislature late Friday as part of a bipartisan deal that also includes an enforcement law, requiring police to check the immigration status of suspects in felony or serious misdemeanor cases.
Republican Gov. Gary Herbert praised lawmakers for crafting a so-called "Utah solution" to the state's illegal immigration problem but has not said whether he will sign the bills.
The federal government would need to grant a waiver to allow Utah to permit immigrant workers who would otherwise not be legally present in the United States. Such a waiver would be unprecedented, and it's unclear whether a mechanism exists for the state to request one.

Still, passage of the legislation -- in a red state, in a part of the country most affected by illegal immigration -- is significant.
Most congressional Republicans and some Democrats currently oppose plans that would address the legal status of the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants living across the United States.
Supporters of the Utah bills say they strike the right balance for the economy, recognizing the importance of immigrant workers for businesses and the need to crack down on illegal immigrants involved in crime.
"This is a common sense, market-based approach that balances immigration enforcement with measures that are supportive of the needs of Utah businesses and are also welcoming of immigrants," said Alfonso Aguilar, executive director of Latino Partnership for Conservative Principles.
Aguilar said the bills would allow Utah's illegal immigrants to live "without the fear of being detained and removed from the country," assuming the federal government goes along with the plan.
Other immigrant advocates suggested that since the guest worker program does not provide a path to citizenship or a green card, which have been controversial components of federal immigration reform plans, other states could be more likely to adopt similar measures.
Under the bill, workers who apply for a permit must already be living in the state, pay a fee, pass a background check and possess health insurance.
Read full article
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/utah-...ry?id=13071198

[ScentsyLorien]

How does an illegal immigrant get health insurance?

[max1]

I think a NATIONAL guest worker program would work out ok. Everyone is accounted for and the money goes to the right places.

[BillW]

Isn't that what a Green Card is for?

[childOfLacroix]

How does an illegal immigrant get health insurance?

Some of them get it through their employers.

They can also buy individual policies, subject to the same preexisting condition clauses and financial constraints as anyone else. It may be easier to obtain in Utah than in Delaware. Some states allow the sale of bare-bones, catastrophic-only policies that cost very little and don't refuse people for minor conditions, only major ones; Utah may be one of those states.

[childOfLacroix]

I think a NATIONAL guest worker program would work out ok. Everyone is accounted for and the money goes to the right places.

I think so, too, although such programs may be administered better by the states. The states know where foreign labor is needed, and they'd have an easier time keeping track of the laborers than the feds.

I like the Utah bill. It sounds reasonable and logical. People who are willing to work for a living and not commit crimes are allowed to stay; those who won't work and/or who commit crimes are tossed out. And as you said, everyone is accounted for.

[max1]

Yep, and after all doesn't the whole problem boil down to accounability and money....This is America, and we should welcome other...legally

[longnecker]

I think so, too, although such programs may be administered better by the states. The states know where foreign labor is needed, and they'd have an easier time keeping track of the laborers than the feds..

With all the unemployment we need foreign labor? Bullshit !!!

[Curly]

With all the unemployment we need foreign labor? Bullshit !!!

When the hell did we decide, we as Americans, are above that kind of work?

[childOfLacroix]

With all the unemployment we need foreign labor? Bullshit !!!

Most long-term unemployed people are over 50. Meanwhile, most of the jobs illegal immigrants do involve hard physical labor, jobs for young, strong people, not someone who is only a couple of years away from collecting Social Security. Even the illegal immigrants who do those kinds of jobs aren't senior citizens.

For example, DelawareOnline had a story this weekend about a 57-year-old woman who has been out of work long-term. Be honest: can you picture a 57-year-old woman performing landscaping or construction work, or picking crops all day under the hot sun, or even working on her feet all day in a slaughterhouse? If I were an employer, I wouldn't hire her for any of those jobs even if she applied; it would be a massive workers' compensation claim waiting to happen.

Yes, I know there are some 50+ people who could smoke 20-year-olds, but let's be honest again: those people are the exceptions--especially among people who have, like the woman in the article, performed sedentary office work for most or all of their adult lives.

And then, as Curly pointed out, the young, strong Americans who could do jobs like that largely don't want them. They either want to work in climate-controlled offices from 9-5...or sit in their climate-controlled Section 8 houses and collect free food, free healthcare and free money for doing nothing.

Even in a rotten economy, there is still some need for foreign labor. If you'd like to see that need diminish, the best way would be to force Americans on welfare to take the jobs foreign workers (legal and illegal) fill. However, I don't see that happening, not even as the country moves further to the right.

[childOfLacroix]

Another thing people don't realize is that the "migrant" part of "migrant farm workers" means just that -- workers who pick crops do NOT live and work in one place. They move from state to state as the seasons change and various crops need to be picked. For example, there's not much picking going on in Sussex County, Delaware, in the winter, so the workers migrate to a warm-weather state and work there for awhile.

Most Americans do not want to lead nomadic lifestyles. I can't point fingers on that one; that's a hard way of life.

[longnecker]

And then, as Curly pointed out, the young, strong Americans who could do jobs like that largely don't want them. They either want to work in climate-controlled offices from 9-5...or sit in their climate-controlled Section 8 houses and collect free food, free healthcare and free money for doing nothing.

Even in a rotten economy, there is still some need for foreign labor. If you'd like to see that need diminish, the best way would be to force Americans on welfare to take the jobs foreign workers (legal and illegal) fill. However, I don't see that happening, not even as the country moves further to the right.

Could this be part of the problem.???

[hockey]

I think you all are referring to "ILLEGAL ALIENS" not illegal immigrants. I know that term has been all over the media but it's not technically accurate. Immigrants and aliens are different.

Definition of immigrant vs alien
An alien is someone who is not a citizen of the country. Citizenship confers on the individual all rights such as the right to vote, as well as associated responsibilities, such as being subject to conscription. An alien may be an non-immigrant or immigrant (permanent resident), may or may not have the right to work in the country, and may be legally allowed to live in the country for varying durations. Regardless of these restrictions and rights, an alien is not a citizen of the country. All aliens living in the country can be considered immigrants, especially if they have temporarily resettled in the country.

An immigrant, on the other hand, may or may not be an alien. An immigrant in a country is someone who has relocated there from another country. If the immigrant has applied for and received citizenship, then they are no longer an alien. Since the definition of immigration relates to the country of origin and the country of resettlement, the person would be called an immigrant throughout their life because they relocated to a new country from their country of origin. However, as soon as the immigrant receives citizenship, they are not an alien any more.



Read more: Alien vs Immigrant - Difference and Comparison | Diffen Alien vs Immigrant - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

[ScentsyLorien]

"And then, as Curly pointed out, the young, strong Americans who could do jobs like that largely don't want them. They either want to work in climate-controlled offices from 9-5...or sit in their climate-controlled Section 8 houses and collect free food, free healthcare and free money for doing nothing."


This is just plain incorrect. I lived in So CA almost the entirety of my life. The guys I went to high school with in the desert ,which happens to have a relatively low illegal alien population, almost exclusively work construction, landscaoing, pool maintenace, etc. They do this in 115+ degree weather. And they make a liveable wage, so long as the work exists.

Go two hours southwest towards San Diego, which happens to have an incredibly large illegal alien population, and the wages for those same kinds of jobs are cut in half even though the cost of living increases by 50% or better.

I'm so tired of the "Entitled American Youth" argument. It's just plain false. People will work hard if they feel they are being paid fairly for it. Why would ANYONE break their back all day for $8 an hour, when they can make the same amount working at walmart?

[Curly]

Why would ANYONE break their back all day for $8 an hour, when they can make the same amount working at walmart?

It's more complex than that. When I was younger, I'd take the ball-bustin jobs over walmart any day even if the construction paid less, which it didn't. Labor type jobs always paid more than the fluffy jobs. With those kind of jobs you feel as though (at least I do) that you've accomplished something. I bet the guys you went to school with felt the same way. It's a guy thing.
"Yup, I worked all day busting my ass hauling wheelbarrows of dirt, I'm dirty, smelly, hot,
my hand is bleeding and it feels great, lets get a beer."

"Hey Bob, how was your day at Walmart?" insert sound of crickets here

Let's not forget the question always asked by the women. "So, what do you do?" "I work construction" is much cooler than "I work at Walmart."

Anyway, I do agree with you on the lower wages the illegals get. If I owned a business I'd be tempted to exploit that also. That, imo, is a big part of the problem.

[childOfLacroix]

Anyway, I do agree with you on the lower wages the illegals get. If I owned a business I'd be tempted to exploit that also. That, imo, is a big part of the problem.

It boils down to this: do Americans want a free market society, devoid of gov't regulations and interference, or do they want a socialist society where the gov't controls, among other things, wages?

As I said on another thread--the one about the woman who spread measles at airports--a free society is not a Utopian ideal. There are positives and negatives. The positives include freedom for individuals to make their own life choices and for businesses to operate as they choose. The negatives include people and businesses having the freedom to make choices others may not like, such as people choosing not to get vaccinated for measles, and possibly contracting and spreading it, and businesses choosing to hire foreign labor--either via foreign workers in the U.S. or by moving operations to another country--because it's cheaper.

I'd rather have a free society and resign myself to the negatives. I think there are fewer negatives under a free market than under socialism. However, the debacle over immigration in this country makes me wonder how many Americans are really willing to abandon socialism and accept the negative aspects of a free market alongside the positives.

BTW, companies also routinely fire older American workers and hire younger Americans to replace them because the younger ones are willing to work for less--and, unlike the older crowd, no longer expect to receive healthcare benefits. There are an astounding number of Americans willing to perform skilled work--things like computer programming--for less than an illegal immigrant would charge for unskilled manual labor.

[childOfLacroix]

Hockey -- common vernacular often differs from strict legal or industry-specific terminology and definitions. Pregnant women generally do not refer to their unborn as "fetuses"--even though, using strict medical terminology, a fetus does not become a baby until it exits the birthmother's body. And pro-lifers despise the word "fetus."

I think people stopped using the word "alien" outside the legal world because it sounded odd, perhaps derogatory. Common people interpreted the word "alien" as meaning "not human." They didn't care that in the legal world, it was never supposed to indicate that, just as pro-lifers don't care that the word "fetus" was never meant to mean "not alive."

[hockey]

Hockey -- common vernacular often differs from strict legal or industry-specific terminology and definitions. Pregnant women generally do not refer to their unborn as "fetuses"--even though, using strict medical terminology, a fetus does not become a baby until it exits the birthmother's body. And pro-lifers despise the word "fetus."

I think people stopped using the word "alien" outside the legal world because it sounded odd, perhaps derogatory. Common people interpreted the word "alien" as meaning "not human." They didn't care that in the legal world, it was never supposed to indicate that, just as pro-lifers don't care that the word "fetus" was never meant to mean "not alive."

Well as both a legal immigrant and an alien (not human) I completely understand how people can get confused.

[ScentsyLorien]

It's more complex than that. When I was younger, I'd take the ball-bustin jobs over walmart any day even if the construction paid less, which it didn't. Labor type jobs always paid more than the fluffy jobs. With those kind of jobs you feel as though (at least I do) that you've accomplished something. I bet the guys you went to school with felt the same way. It's a guy thing.
"Yup, I worked all day busting my ass hauling wheelbarrows of dirt, I'm dirty, smelly, hot,
my hand is bleeding and it feels great, lets get a beer."

"Hey Bob, how was your day at Walmart?" insert sound of crickets here

Let's not forget the question always asked by the women. "So, what do you do?" "I work construction" is much cooler than "I work at Walmart."

Anyway, I do agree with you on the lower wages the illegals get. If I owned a business I'd be tempted to exploit that also. That, imo, is a big part of the problem.

I prefer manual labor myself. Gives me time to think and it's pretty cathartic...to me anyway. The thought of sitting in a cubicle all day, having to a put cover sheets on TPS reports and answering to my 87 bosses all day OR having to spend anytime at all in walmart is like my own personal hell come to life.

Ask me again in 15 years when my body starts to fail me. I'm sure my tune will change.