Family Problem (long)

[longnecker]

"Going to watch the kids for the summer" Could she go to school from your inlaws house?

[TattdMom]

Yes she is going to school from their house Longnecker. My BIL is going to take her 2 nights a week for her classes.

Crabby, I am aprehensive about the Fall but I'll take it day by day. L is currently looking for an apartment but really can't swing it by herself and I know that.

JTan, as far as them being spoilled. I'm not sure how you got that but ok. L has worked since she was 15 and has pretty much paid her own way since graduation. E on the other hand grew up with a mother in the welfare system all of her life and has no clue what it means to have to work for a living.

I appreciate the counseling suggestions but I know that will NEVER happen. DH would never ever go for it. It is unfortunate that he cannot have the relationship with his daughter that he wants. What happend will not happen again and if it does, then they are both out, that was made crystal clear Sunday night. The behavior was and is completely unacceptable and will not be tollerated. I got my point across and whether or not it worked only time will tell. I know right now there is peace in the household and that's all any parent wants right? LOL

[Silver Eagle]

Hi everyone! I've been gone for a while but I'm back now, between work, school and family I've not had any time for TD but I'm going to try to do better. So, here I am, back with my TD friends and I need help. We have some family issues going on right now and I just don't know what to do and I thought some objective advice might help me out so if you have a minute please respond with any ideas you might have. Here's the background.

I live in a 4 bedroom 3 bath house with the following: My mom, my 20y/o son, my 22 y/o daughter, my 21 y/o step daughter and my husband. So you can imagine that there are many issues right? Well here's the biggest one. My SD, we'll call her "E", moved in with us 2 years ago this June. My husband has not had a relationship with her since she was 5 when her mom picked up and moved her and her brothers to MO, and then to KY several years later. E decided 2 years ago that she would like to come out for a visit, she just had her 19th birthday. My DH was elated that she was coming, then she arrived. What a shock to the system this was, she couldn't even hug him when we picked her up from the airport, said she wasn't comfortable hugging strangers. DH took that in stride. She was scheduled to stay for 3 weeks, after 2 weeks she decided she wanted to stay. We said "ok" but you are going to get a job, this was in June, finally in the latter part of September DH got her a job at the local Wawa, second job she's ever had in her life. Through this job she met a boy and started spending a lot of time with him. By December she was fired for no call no show because he supposedly couldn't wake her up to go to work one night, she worked the graveyard shift. Then we didn't see her again, and discovered in February that she left to go back to her mom's in KY. In the meantime my 22 y/o was moving back from VA because she couldn’t find a job and was having medical issues. Now she, we’ll call her L, and E never got along. E never liked the fact that L called my husband “dad” even though he raised her since she was 4.

Then in July DH got a phone call from his ex, she couldn't get E to do anything, not get a job not do any housework etc. Could we take her back? I was pissed but because he's my husband and I want him to be happy I conceded. In my mind that’s just what you do for family you take care of each other. So he told her that she could come back but she’d be getting a job because we couldn’t support her. In the meantime my DS and mom were making plans to move to TX. So we knew we would have room, but he also warned E that L was living with us so be prepared. He also told her that he didn’t know when she could come, we would have to work out the finances because of course we were paying her way. About 3 weeks later she called and said she wasn’t sure she wanted to come. Well ok whatever. Then a week after that she started calling every week to find out when she could come. DH and I told her that it would probably be mid September. She was ok with that but said “I don’t know how much longer mom will let me stay here”. Well the end of September DH’s mom passed away suddenly, he was actually supposed to be going to get E the following weekend. So, we got her a bus ticket and got her to DE within 2 days. We buried my MIL the 2nd of October. My mom and DS came home the 2nd week of November, no notice or anything just, “things aren’t working out here we are coming home”. Since then, my mom, ds, L, and E have been living with us. I got E into Del Tech for Culinary Arts and she’s completed one semester. We have told her since day one that she still needs to get a job but she still hasn’t gotten one. DS is getting ready to go to Job Corps in a month.

Then everything came to a head this past Saturday. DH, my Mom and myself went to the movies. We of course all turned our phones off during the movie. When we came out I had 4 messages on my phone. I called my oldest DD telling me that E and L had gotten into a fight and E had thrown a bowl of noodle ramen on L and L just left the ER with 2nd degree burns on her back. I was speechless. I told my DH and we rushed home, on the way I told him that E just had to go. He said “no she’s not”. So we get home and E had called my BIL and he came to get her so she was gone. L was on her way home from the ER. I told DH to get E on the phone and find out her side. Well when he got my BIL on the phone he was blaming L because she constantly calls E “fat and lazy”. That is true but it is not a reason to throw hot soup on someone. Evidently L was trying to get the bowl from E before it got spilled and after struggling with it 3 or 4 times L let go. Some of the soup splashed on E and as L walked away E threw it at her. Then L turned around and puncher her in the face. Since then E has been at my BIL’s and I have been taking care of L’s burns. My DH barely speaks to any of us and blames L for the whole mess. DH and I have been together for 20 years, and I refuse to let E come between us but it seems that she already has.

I know this was really long and I appreciate you taking the time to read it now, any advice?

If that were me,I'd clean out my banking account and run away from home, today.You know you should have a Movie made of this .What a soap opera.You could make millions on Day time TV.

[Curly]

All the problems started when E showed up. From what you posted, I'm siding with L.
It sounds to me that E IS lazy and has no desire to get a job. For me the solution would be easy but you have DH and I can understand his wants. I'm glad you put your foot down, now you just need to stick to it and force E to grow up.

[TattdMom]

*****Update******
Ok so I'm bored so I thought I'd update you all on the goings on of the past 5 months at the Tattd home.

E did spend most of the Summer babysitting my nieces & nephew but of course not without drama. Around the end of June we had a tattoo party, we have about 5 a year, but while the party was going on someone called for E. Being the nosey person I am, ok it's my phone and I pay the bill, I checked the number that called her because I didn't recognize it. When I got the name of the person I googled it, the first thing that popped up was that this individual that called is a registered sex offender. I was pissed! I immediately called my SIL to inform her of this since E is watching her kids. When confronted, E said she had no idea, but didn't understand why we thought it best to terminate the "relationship". I had to explain to her, now mind you she's 22, that if she is watching 3 children under the age of 10, maybe dating a sex offender wasn't the best idea. To this day I still don't know if she's severed ties with this person, I know he's never called the house again but still.

L is working and still going to school, but has moved up to NCC with her Uncle for a better work opportunity, there is still a lot of tension between L & E and unfortunately I don't think that will ever change.

My mom has sinced moved out and DS is in Job Corps.

When E recieved her residual check in May we told her that she had to go to driving school through the "Y" because she needs a drivers license. She paid for the classes and went but let her permit lapse and still has no license. DH has offered many times to pay the $25 to get a new permit and teach her how to drive so she can pass the test......she chooses to spend the weekend with "friends" instead of doing this, or anything else around the house.

The other day DH and I were going over finances, mostly trying to figure out why we don't have any money after the bills are paid. We went through everything and he's finally figured out that he has to force her to get a job or she just has to go. He told me that he was going to tell her she had till the first of the year to get a job or she had to find somewhere else to go. Well when he told her this one morning on the way to school, she didn't even answer him. In September she sent her mom money, from her residual check from her PELL grant, to get her a ticket to go to KY for Christmas. Up until yesterday, her mom still hasn't purchased the ticket. I'm thinking that she's balking because she doesn't want her home but she isn't staying with us after the first of the year. DH told me the other day that he thinks that she's using school as a reason not to work....ya think?

[daveindelaware]

Wow. Such drama. I hate drama, but unfortunately I have that in my life sometimes, thanks to my Ex.

(note: I'm using "they" in a generic way here)

These "kids" are both adults, right? Regardless, they're staying in YOUR house. Do they pay rent? Help with the utility bills?

If they don't satisfy the "ultimatum" by the beginning of the year, oh well. That's on them. Then kick them out. Simple as that. Sounds like they need to put their big girl panties on and suck it up. Get a job. Do well in school. Get over the jealousy of each other. Help out around the house somehow.

I'm sure if these were actually my kids it would be difficult to do what I said. But we're not talking about booting a 12-year old girl into the street. These are fully capable intelligent able-to-work adults.

The economy might be partly to blame with job opportunities, but it sounds like there's sabotage involved, not a bad economy.

Good luck. I hope the drama leaves your house soon.

[longnecker]

Good Luck. Seems some of them will never make it on their own. I'm thinking now of my 30 something stepson. Always needs mommies help.

[ScentsyLorien]

well, at least things are getting somewhat better. My brother is in Job Corps right now....best thing ever for him! He was kinda floundering for a while and miserable about it, and while Job Corps has it's dissadvantages (mostly some of the others goind there), it has given him incredible confidence and he's excelling for the first time in an educational setting and he's exceeded all of our expectations....he's class foreman and spokesman and is on the football team and is breezing through his electrician course....I really think he's found his niche! He just told me yesterday that he helped build a dream park for some dissadvantaged kids in DC and he's considering working with habitat for humanity when he finishes. We are all so incredibly proud of him.

As far as E.....sometimes people need to experience what life is like on their own to appreciate what it's like when they have so much help. Paying bills and working and going to school is no fun and it leaves little time to hang out with friends. Maybe being forced to be an adult is exactly what she needs to grow up and take responsibility for herself.

You all have done your part. If your grown children aren't willing to do theirs, you shouldnt be forced to shoulder the responsibility. And as long as you are willing to, it gives the layabouts no incentive to change their actions because there aren't any unacceptable consequences to them. It's a hard position to be in as a parent, but I really don't think enabling them to be less than their potential is helping them at all.....but I'm sure the what if's of giving them the boot are terrifying.


Whatever happens, I really Hope things work out well, tattd.

[Crabby]

Tatt. It sounds like E is emotionally still about 12. If all she wants to do is hang out with friends, how come they have time to hang out with her? Aren't they working either? Are they immature too? Are they encouraging each other to still be kids and live in the the past? If she can't drive, how does she get to the friends? Why are you letting her? Limit her contact with those "friends!" Take away her phone. It seems they are a bad influence. She doesn't believe you would really throw her out and she will test you on it. Having contact of any kind with a sex offender and not seeing why it's a problem shows how troubled and immature she is. She wants to engage you in a power conflict and thinks she will win. I don't care if she is over 21 , by her attitude and actions she shows she isn't isn't grown up yet and should be treated as a much younger person. Consider stopping the tattoo parties until she shapes up. If she still refuses to cooperate start stripping her room. Make it so it is no longer comfortable to be there. No computer, no phone, no TV or whatever means anything to her. If necessary take away her bed and give her a mattress on the floor.Take the door off her room! If she's being an itch, why should she have privacy? Let her earn it back. Talking to her isn't working.Time for action! As long as she has no reason to grow up and become independent and self sufficient, she won't.They don't call it tough love for nothing! Take her to a women's shelter and show her what it's like to be homeless. Do you know any of her friends? If not why not? You need to know who is having an influence on her. Does she have any friends who are on their own who need a room mate? Check out the costs of Apts and rooms to rent and show her so she gets that you are serious. Be sure she knows you will always love her, but that being so helpless isn't good for her and will get worse as she gets older. Be sure and say how much you approve of her successful babysitting experience. She could do babysitting even now. Parents are always looking for reliable older sitters. Eventually most of her friends will get jobs, get married and move on and she may be left behind. If nothing else she should be volunteering somewhere doing something useful. Sometimes that networking leads to jobs and can give the volunteer a sense of self worth.(As Scentsy said) I think she is acting the way she is out of habit and habits can be broken. Good luck, and keep swinging. You must win for all of your sakes.

[TomS70]

Karen and I put the "get a job or get out" ultimatum to her son (21) last year and he didn't....so we did. It was very hard for her, but she stood firm once we decided it was the right thing to do. He has yet to starve to death. Sometimes they need a large dose of the real world to shake them up a bit and help them set their priorities.

[Rusty]

Just read this, Tattd. I hope everything works out for you and your husband. I'm siding with L and not with E in this one. A guest is usually more considerate than the family members and E is a guest. It wasn't her fault that her Mom chose to leave the area but it wasn't your family's fault either. E needs a big dose of gratitude toward you and her Dad. She doesn't even realize what she's got with you - you're trying to train her to get along in life - and that makes me sad. Good luck.

[TattdMom]

Tatt. It sounds like E is emotionally still about 12. If all she wants to do is hang out with friends, how come they have time to hang out with her? Aren't they working either? Are they immature too? Are they encouraging each other to still be kids and live in the the past? If she can't drive, how does she get to the friends? Why are you letting her? Limit her contact with those "friends!" Take away her phone. It seems they are a bad influence. She doesn't believe you would really throw her out and she will test you on it. Having contact of any kind with a sex offender and not seeing why it's a problem shows how troubled and immature she is. She wants to engage you in a power conflict and thinks she will win. I don't care if she is over 21 , by her attitude and actions she shows she isn't isn't grown up yet and should be treated as a much younger person. Consider stopping the tattoo parties until she shapes up. If she still refuses to cooperate start stripping her room. Make it so it is no longer comfortable to be there. No computer, no phone, no TV or whatever means anything to her. If necessary take away her bed and give her a mattress on the floor.Take the door off her room! If she's being an itch, why should she have privacy? Let her earn it back. Talking to her isn't working.Time for action! As long as she has no reason to grow up and become independent and self sufficient, she won't.They don't call it tough love for nothing! Take her to a women's shelter and show her what it's like to be homeless. Do you know any of her friends? If not why not? You need to know who is having an influence on her. Does she have any friends who are on their own who need a room mate? Check out the costs of Apts and rooms to rent and show her so she gets that you are serious. Be sure she knows you will always love her, but that being so helpless isn't good for her and will get worse as she gets older. Be sure and say how much you approve of her successful babysitting experience. She could do babysitting even now. Parents are always looking for reliable older sitters. Eventually most of her friends will get jobs, get married and move on and she may be left behind. If nothing else she should be volunteering somewhere doing something useful. Sometimes that networking leads to jobs and can give the volunteer a sense of self worth.(As Scentsy said) I think she is acting the way she is out of habit and habits can be broken. Good luck, and keep swinging. You must win for all of your sakes.

Crabby,

Thanks for the suggestions but it's a little more complicated than that. We don't provide her with a tv, computer in her room nor do we pay for her tracfone cell phone. As far as her "friends" I know that when she goes away for the weekends she's spending it with a married couple, who yes are immature. He is a 31 year old Chinese food delivery driver and she's 22 and just got a job at a daycare. I don't know much more about thier situation and personally don't care. As far as her going over there, I'm not stopping her that's not my place and it's been made perfectly clear to me that it isn't. We've all been playing the "out of sight out of mind" game for years now. As far as the tattoo parties, they don't have anything to do with her, they are something that my DH and I do she is just there for them and we do not pay for her to get anything if she wants it as far as a tattoo etc. We've made it perfectly clear to her that the only obligations we have to her are to keep a roof over her head and have food in the house....and that's not going to last too much longer. We've done everything for her that we've done for the other 3 kids, and in some cases even more. Her blaten disrespect for us as parents has been pushed to the limit. She just needs to go back to her mother's.

[daveindelaware]

Her blaten disrespect for us as parents has been pushed to the limit.

There ya go. That's the key right there.

[TattdMom]

Karen and I put the "get a job or get out" ultimatum to her son (21) last year and he didn't....so we did. It was very hard for her, but she stood firm once we decided it was the right thing to do. He has yet to starve to death. Sometimes they need a large dose of the real world to shake them up a bit and help them set their priorities.

Tom,

That's pretty much what it's come down to....I've done it with my 2 that still lived with us. L moved out 2 weeks ago because I wouldn't let her bf stay with us whenever she wanted him to. She is buying a car from me and I've already told her that until she has a job and pays the $200 a month we agreed upon, the car stays with me. If she doesn't pay then the car comes back to me, even if I have to come and get it. DH and I had a rare weekend alone and discussed a lot of this termoil and we both agree that enough is enough. It hurts like hell that L left and I can't take care of her but on the same token, she'll be 23 next Saturday and it's time. As far as E is concerned she does need a LARGE dose of reality and I'm just the step mother to do it.

Thanks all of you for your advice, it's helped put my mind at ease that we are doing the right thing.

[daveindelaware]

Sometimes the best teacher and motivator is a swift kick in the arse and being "forced" to take care of yourself.

When I was younger, my parents told me that as long as I was going to school (college), then I could live at home. Once I graduated, it was time to get a job and move out.

I did, and I did. It's not that difficult, and it's something that MUST happen eventually to any normal young adult. You can't expect to live with Mommy and Daddy forever, nor do they want that.

It's just part of growing up. You gotta put the big boy/girl underwear on and set out on your own. Some of us just need a bigger jumpstart than others, because we just don't want to do that, because it's outside our "safe zone" of feelings and knowledge.

She'll be just fine.