Delaware Cub Scout, Suspended For 'Weapon' In School - Page 2

Kid Lester · #22 10-13-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cracker

Isn't there any room at all for common sense?

Nope. Because Common Sense is inherently subjective. What might be a no-brainer to me might be a gray area for you, depending on how we grew up, like you said.

A small knife found in possession of a good kid with a good explanation can't go unpunished and then expect that you can punish a bad kid with the same type of knife who maybe got in an altercation with another kid the day before, but has a plausible explanation for why he has the knife today. Now you have to prove the bad kid had ill intent when he brought it to school. Otherwise, you have a problem on your hands. And if one kid is white and the other kid black or hispanic, then you have the ACLU in your office.

No thanks. There isn't the time, and DEFINITELY not the resources, to deal with this stuff all the time. There just isn't.

Tracy · #23 10-13-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cracker

Maybe this is just the redneck in me coming out but I've carried a Buck and Swiss Army knife for as long as I can remember. I use one or both everyday. My parents wouldn't have given it a second thought. In fact my Dad gave me my first Swiss Army knife.

The only time I stopped carrying knives was in High School after the Columbine thing when everyone went nuts and they instituted the Zero Tolerance policies. Isn't there any room at all for common sense?

I'm not aware of carrying a swiss army knife being one of the "you might be a redneck" rules

Believe me, I understand where you're coming from, but imho, you just can't bring any type of knife to school. Again, I can certainly see them separating the rule....one punishment for kids that get caught with the swiss army knife and another punishment for kids who get caught in an altercation with a swiss army knife. As far as I'm concerned, if you're caught trying to use it as a weapon, you should be expelled.

Bellicose · #24 10-13-2009, 06:30 PM

I do not have kids, but I would think that 45 days is a bit harsh for a 6 year old. I have asked numerous people at work who all have kids and they all agree with me. One maybe two weeks tops for a 6 year old. 45 days is just nuts.

About searching the book bag thing. If you leave before your child goes to school, and get home after they get home, it is impossible to make sure that nothing is in there that you do not approve. If your child wants to get something to school without you knowing they will do it. Example, my buddy today told me that his 6 year old took a Matchbox car to school. He was told repeatedly that he was not allowed. Well when back to school night came he went through his desk and found a Matchbox car. Asked him how, he said I put it in my pocket, well I put on your coat for you how, I know you did not walk out of the house with it. It was in the car from last night. Pretty sneaky if you ask me. I know there is a difference between a Matchbox car and a Salvation Army Utility Knife, just an example.

Who is more at the blame here, Cub Scouts for giving a 6 year old this item, or the parents for allowing the boy to use it at his discretion?

I understand that there may be a problem that comes from this if say a 18 year old brings one, and you suspend him for 45 days. But I would say compared to a 6 year old, the 18 year old should have the knowledge to know that they should not be bringing said item to school.

Green Lantern · #25 10-13-2009, 07:03 PM

October 13, 2009 -- A Delaware first-grader suspended for bringing his favorite camping utensil to school will likely get a reprieve, a school board member said Tuesday. Zachary Christie, 6, was ordered to spend 45 days in his district's alternative school for troublemakers after he tried to use the combination folding fork, knife and spoon to eat lunch at Downes Elementary School in Newark, Del.
The knife is banned as a dangerous instrument under the Christina School District's zero-tolerance policy, and officials said they were forced to act regardless of Zachary's age or what he planned to do with it.
Hundreds of people were expected to attend a school board meeting Tuesday night, and member John Mackenzie said the board would likely amend the policy. Any change would be retroactive to the beginning of the school year. READ MORE

frogman68 · #26 10-13-2009, 07:10 PM

Christina vote allows boy back in school | Delawareonline.com | The News Journal

wendy · #27 10-13-2009, 08:09 PM

So was it the media circus the News Journal promised? I was supposed to be there for other reasons but avoided it like the plague.

motherof3 · #28 10-13-2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendy

So was it the media circus the News Journal promised? I was supposed to be there for other reasons but avoided it like the plague.

Yeah I wasn't going either.

Been to too many that have been just a shouting match and a bunch of pissed off people. I get enough of that from my kids and I can stay in my own house for that show! I'm torn on this issue, on the one hand I'd like the school board to take things case by case, but like Kid said, what I find reasonable is not necessarily what someone else's definition would be.

Decent · #29 10-14-2009, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendy

I am so torn on this. Yes, it's ridiculous suspending THIS child for bringing a cub scout knife to school. I get that...he's a good kid, he loves school, he's respectful.

HOWEVER, I have also been witness to the case of the kindergartner who was, lets just say, 'experimenting' with his little classmates because it's what he saw on t.v. at home.

And I have seen children as young as first grade slinging the 'F-bomb', threatening, and assaulting other kids AND staff members.

The district is between a rock and a hard place. So, they turn their back on this sweet, hard-working little boys minor infraction because he's 'one of the good ones'...and then down the road a few months one of the the 'not so good ones' brings a similar item to school with the intent to harm. Well, now it's a little harder to hold the hard and firm line, isn't it? Now we have parents pointing fingers screaming how biased the district is.

It's always easy to sit back and shake our heads and point out the faults in situations like this, but perhaps if we were the ones faced with these situations on a day to day basis we may actually see where they are coming from.

Could the teacher have taken the boy aside, explained the problem, and then called the parents about it...take care of it 'in house' so to speak? Yes, but then she/he is putting themselves in danger for not following policy, not to mention setting themselves up for a future scenario like the one above, when that teacher turns in the 'not so good' kid.

I don't know...is it extreme? Seems to be in this case, but maybe we need to look at ALL of the cases and decide how they should be handled. A school district can not look at situations like this on a 'case by case' basis without looking like they are showing favoritism of one sort or another...

Just my 2...for the little that it's worth.

At first I was like, Oh Cmon! This is ridiculous! They're going too far with Zero Tolerance thing! But then I read Wendys post and realized it's more than just taking a camping utility from a boy scout, it's taking the same thing out of the hands of kid who might not be so innocent about it in the future.

Then I thought, well maybe they could make the punishments less severe for a kid like this. Discrimination will rear it's ugly head in this case too.

I don't see any other choice at the moment, now.

Rusty · #30 10-14-2009, 06:02 AM

I'm glad to hear that the school intends to look at these things case by case now. If anyone saw the little guy explaining himself on TV, they would know that he is innocent of any malice. He's only 6!!!

max1 · #31 10-14-2009, 06:13 AM

Well at least a bit of common sense has come out of this, although I still would not want to be a teacher in this country anymore, could you imagine some little bastard stabbing a teacher and the parent saying "Well what did the teacher do to deserve it"

Rusty · #32 10-14-2009, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max1

"Well what did the teacher do to deserve it"

And you know they would say this...

mastiffmom · #33 10-14-2009, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellicose

Who is more at the blame here, Cub Scouts for giving a 6 year old this item, or the parents for allowing the boy to use it at his discretion?

Just wanted to clarify, BSA (Boy Scouts of America) does not endorse giving knives to scouts, cub scout or boy scouts.
Use of a knife is serious business and a scout must prove themselves responsible to handling the knife safely. Cub scouts are not permitted knives until they have reached the 3rd grade and have passed a proficiency for handling the knife, then the scout may have a knife. BSA does not purchase knives for scouts, that is the decision of the parents. If the parent purchases a knife earlier, that is the decision of the parents.
Boy scouts must also pass a proficiency in handling a knife and follow safe practice at all times.
I did see a scout lose their knife carrying privledge due to unsafe practices. If a scout is see being irresponsible with a knife, the knife is removed from the scout and they lose the privlege.

Did the kid intend to hurt anyone, most likely not. Should parents have shown better judgement in letting him bring it to school - yes. We have those tools at home and they are kept in our garage with our camping equipment. We have quite a few knives and such from scouts. They are put away and my oldest knows they are for camping trips. My youngest is a 2nd year cub scout and not permitted to handle a knife yet.

I'm glad he is permitted back at school. Do I agree with zero tolerance - yes. Unfortunately, there are times when the zero tolerance hurts the innocent and that is what makes news. I consider them to be life lessons for others.

One thing I would hate is for the BSA to get a black eye over this.

frogman68 · #34 10-14-2009, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mastiffmom

Just wanted to clarify, BSA (Boy Scouts of America) does not endorse giving knives to scouts, cub scout or boy scouts.
Use of a knife is serious business and a scout must prove themselves responsible to handling the knife safely. Cub scouts are not permitted knives until they have reached the 3rd grade and have passed a proficiency for handling the knife, then the scout may have a knife. BSA does not purchase knives for scouts, that is the decision of the parents. If the parent purchases a knife earlier, that is the decision of the parents.
Boy scouts must also pass a proficiency in handling a knife and follow safe practice at all times.
I did see a scout lose their knife carrying privledge due to unsafe practices. If a scout is see being irresponsible with a knife, the knife is removed from the scout and they lose the privlege.

Did the kid intend to hurt anyone, most likely not. Should parents have shown better judgement in letting him bring it to school - yes. We have those tools at home and they are kept in our garage with our camping equipment. We have quite a few knives and such from scouts. They are put away and my oldest knows they are for camping trips. My youngest is a 2nd year cub scout and not permitted to handle a knife yet.

I'm glad he is permitted back at school. Do I agree with zero tolerance - yes. Unfortunately, there are times when the zero tolerance hurts the innocent and that is what makes news. I consider them to be life lessons for others.

One thing I would hate is for the BSA to get a black eye over this.

The "knife" he had was only the utensils for eating no Totem Chip needed to have it otherwise we would have some hungry scouts

daisy dog · #35 10-14-2009, 07:12 AM

We have lost common sense in this country. With all the serial killers and ax murderers running around, we pick on an innocent little kid.

lewin · #36 10-14-2009, 07:21 AM

from the 2 minute cover story i seen on WBOC it looks like the school board only allowed this child back cause of the media. the head of the board spacifically mentioned "all the press" they just dont want more attetion brought to them in the national light.

I hope that the state child protective looks into this. I clearly see a bit of parental neglect in ensuring thier child doesnt take dangerous weapons to school.

frogman68 · #37 10-14-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewin

from the 2 minute cover story i seen on WBOC it looks like the school board only allowed this child back cause of the media. the head of the board spacifically mentioned "all the press" they just dont want more attetion brought to them in the national light.

I hope that the state child protective looks into this. I clearly see a bit of parental neglect in ensuring thier child doesnt take dangerous weapons to school.

Have you seen these hobo tools (thats what we call em) the knife has a hard time cutting butter

Decent · #38 10-14-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewin

I hope that the state child protective looks into this. I clearly see a bit of parental neglect in ensuring thier child doesnt take dangerous weapons to school.

It wasn't a gun Lewin. It was a multi-purpose camping utility used for eating. Yes the parents should have thought about it a little more, but cmon, ok?

Quote:

Originally Posted by daisy dog

We have lost common sense in this country. With all the serial killers and ax murderers running around, we pick on an innocent little kid.

"Picking on an innocent little kid" can save someone else from being hurt by another child taking the same thing, after sharpening the knife, to school for the purpose of doing something other than eating.

Rusty · #39 10-14-2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decent

It wasn't a gun Lewin. It was a multi-purpose camping utility used for eating. Yes the parents should have thought about it a little more, but cmon, ok?

I agree with you Decent. The child took it to school without his parents' knowledge - they always let him use it for meals at home and never noticed that he had taken it off the counter to bring it to school. At most, they are guilty of not having the experience of someone else doing this before and getting slammed for it. Does anyone tell their kids, "This is a butter knife, you must never take it to school..." etc. Well now they might. My parents never said that to me - it was a non-issue then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decent

"Picking on an innocent little kid" can save someone else from being hurt by another child taking the same thing, after sharpening the knife, to school for the purpose of doing something other than eating.

I agree with you in spirit here but I join the call for using common sense in such situations. If the kid had been a troublemaker, then a tool like that would have been suspect in his possession. This 6 year old is a scout with a camping utensil and not much ability [yet] to put a sentence together, let alone hatch a plot for grade school domination.

Some good is coming out of this - I'm glad it happened like this and the little tyke is OK.

billywilly · #40 10-14-2009, 09:13 AM

The same law applies to mentally deficient people before a judge in court rooms across America. The fact that one doesn't know any better or can't judge between right and wrong applies to children and mentally challenged adults. In a similiar case a woman I knew in Jersey became confused and needed medication and her life became distructive, last I heard she got busted for prostitution and other problems and the judge in the court of law has to take the fact that she doesn't know any better into consideration when passing any judgement. The responsibility becomes ours being they can't do this on their own. I do believe our representatives need to look at the problem and the laws before passing any judgement..